Extreme Flyer Designs: Used Car Scams: Negotiate or Die!

Negotiate Or Die! Well maybe not that drastic although it could give you a heart attack constantly paying more for less.

So I have been shopping for a New or Used car for a little over 5 Months now. The main reason it is taking this long: Car prices are astronomically high right now, for no apparent reason... other than too many people simply do not try and negotiate at all during the car buying process. Let me tell you after all these months there are literally only 3 cars I feel bad for letting go, all the rest can go to hell, they were way overpriced anyway and replacements that were just as good if not better popped up quickly just a few days or weeks later. During this process I have gotten better at negotiating and have also come to the realization that almost nobody else seems to be trying to negotiate with these clowns. Seriously, you guys (the ones not trying to lower the cost of a car by a few thousands) are the very reason used cars and new cars for that matter are rising in price.

Car dealerships will lie to you through their teeth and tell you there is very little markup on these cars, they will tell you they are competitively priced according to the market even when you have already confirmed that most of the cars on their lot are well over $1500-3000 above market. Besides which as consumers we want to find a deal or create a deal, we want to be well below market value. Especially on a used car afterall we may later have to invest more money into fixing hidden problems that may surface after a few months of driving.

The car dealerships will quote you Kelley Blue book prices all day and say they are very close to Kelly Blue Book, but they won't tell you that the actual Kelley Blue Book (vs just the online version) lists several prices and the only one they are quoting you is the estimated retail value of the car and will act like they paid very close to that. As if they didn't give the previous guy well below the even lower "Kelley Blue Book Estimated trade in Value" Have you ever traded in a car and felt like you got ripped off on your low balled trade in? Exactly! Don't believe the hype. Start closer to the trade in value on your negotiations and walk away when you have to. I have gotten plenty of callbacks a week later trying to sell that stagnant beast that tears holes in their pocket just sitting there on their lot. Now granted they keep trying to say things like "We can't pay you to buy our car" and "We paid more than that for it" No you didn't, just stop the lies. You know damned well they said things like "well you know when we inspected it we found a bunch of things we'll have to do to get this car ready to sell so the most we can give you is Bupkis" LOL. Then they go and mark it up pretending like they paid near full value for the car.

I actually have managed to make a little headway on a Toyota 4Runner getting them to lower the price by a few thousand dollars but still not to where I need tit to be to feel I got a good deal. The problem is the car started at over $6000-8000 more than I want to pay and just $4000-5000 short of a brand new Toyota 4Runner for a 2015 model it makes no sense whatsoever. Clearly since they legalized weed here in Colorado the whole state has been smoking way too much weed lately or filling up with too many people that just don't care to negotiate properly.

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Negotiating a Car Deal 101:

The car salesman's mission is to extract as much money from you as they can. And they do this day in and day out for a living. Your job is to keep as much of your hard earned money as possible!

1. Negotiate on The Total Price of The Car! Not the Monthly Payment

The total cost of the car is number one on my list as it should be on yours. And trust me it is number one on the car dealerships list as well. That is why they always try and say "if it's the payments that's a problem we can get you down to the payment you want, we can find ways to lower your monthly payment" Sure, let me think here for a second...

So you want me to instead of pay $480 a month for 60 months which equals $28,800 + interest you rather I pay $450 for 72 months? $32,400 + extra interest for taking longer to pay it off? No thanks. Just lower the overall price of the car and give me a lower interest rate.

They will always ask what kind of payments would you like to have... WELL NONE obviously... so the faster I can pay this car off the better which brings us back to the same resolution, lower the price of the car.

2. Buy a new car at the end of the month
Most new car dealerships are basically independent sales centers that specialize in one or two brands at a time. These independent dealerships are allocated a Quota to sell a certain amount of each type of car each month OR ELSE! It's the Carrot or The Stick! There's a stick at the end of the month if they don't move enough vehicles. And the carrot? The carrot is a huge under the table payment, a significant cash inducement for getting the job done. So if you stroll into the new car dealership with 3 days left at the end of the month with all your finances ready to rip and pitch your low offer and abrogate the responsibility of payment ability to an off site partner and are prepared to walk away if they don't meet your price and they are just short of their Quota for the month, they'de be prepared to lose a few grand on you if it means a Tsunami of cash under the table from the parent car company.

3. The Dealer Really Needs to Get rid of Those Cars They Have in stock NOW!

When a dealer takes delivery of a car he now owns them. He buys those cars on credit and the interest rate is substantial and it hurts! So getting rid of every car, getting some cash for those cars that are hurting them and burning a hole in the dealer's credit is a very important commercial objective. Use this fact to your advantage: If you see a car that is on the lot that is everything you want but it's blue and you really wanted black or you really wanted red you say: "Well you know, I really wanted the car in Red but that blue car looks alright, if you make the price right I'll take the blue one anyway" Even if they have the exact color you want, even if you really wanted blue you can still be be a bastard and say "I really want Red but this blue one looks alright" Even if he says "we do have a red one out back" just answer with "You know what I think I'm starting to like this Blue one, I'll have to think about it, I think I'll sleep on it and get back to you." If he lowers the price great, if he doesn't, thank him for his time give him your information tell him "let me know if you can talk the management down to my price" and then walk away.

The important thing here is that you buy a car that is in stock on the dealership lot, that is the car the dealership is most desperate to sell!! If he has to order it specially for you his incentive to discount the car is much less.

4. Pitch your First Offer Low, Because It Only Goes Up From There

You have to offer a price that is lower than you are prepared to pay. The salesman's job is to talk you up, so pitch a couple grand lower and expect them to barely budge at first. Even if they go down a few thousand you don't have to increase your offer by the same amount or range. Stay as close to your lower limit as possible.

5. Palm Off Your Spending Limit Onto A Person That Is Not Present

You pitched your low offer, let's say $23,000, and they countered with $28,000 You are willing to spend $25,000 and let's say you counter low again and they are willing to meet you in the middle, they counter with $26,000 now you aggregate the spending limit to someone that isn't there.

You say "OK, I'm going to come clean, $25,000 is my absolute limit and my Misses is going to kill me if I try to spend a dollar more"

The important thing here is that the person that holds the limit cannot be there. If the person that holds the limit is not present and cannot be contacted at that time then the salesman cannot go to work on them. So the limit is now ABSOLUTE! Suddenly the dynamics of the deal have changed, in the new dynamics of the deal, you and the salesman are now both on the same page, you want to buy the car, he wants to sell it to you, the only problem is the limit is held by this BASTARD 3rd Party who isn't present. If $25,000 is the limit just stick to it and see if he caves in.

6. Walking Away From The Negotiation Is Not A Sign of Weakness

People get the wrong idea about walking away - they feel like they lost, because they weren't able to get the salesman to meet their price. You said "the limit is $25,000 or the misses is going to kill me" he says no. You say: "Oh well, thanks for your time, I'm sorry we can't do business, you've got my number if that changes within the next couple of days give me a call" Shake his hand and be diplomatic about it, thank them for their time and effort and then walk out.

Walking out is not "Giving Up" Walking out is not weakness, if anything walking out is an expression of power. The person with the most power in a negotiation is the person that can walk away from a deal and just drop it. You don't know if that dealership is under pressure, you don;t know if they have to sell a car right now to make their quota, and they are not going to outright tell you. But you can certainly test the water by walking away. If you walk and get a phone call within 24-48 hours and the price is suddenly miraculously more malleable, you just shrugged and exercised your power and they finally caved in.

7. Separate the 3 Transactions

When people buy a new car they often think they are doing one transaction, "buying a new car" but it's usually actually 3 separate transactions and if you do all 3 in one place they have unprecedented leverage over you.

Separate the 3 Transactions!

Buying A New Car
Getting Financed
Trade In

Car Loan: Get pre approved for a car loan, then you can say "if you can beat this offer I'll go with your finance"

Trade in: Make sure you know what it is worth and try to get that for it, because if they low ball you on the trade in they can certainly give you a "discount" on the New Car, especially if they can also make even more on the finance deal.

New Car: Negotiate the Price of The New Car!

If you separate the 3 transactions you quickly realize all you really need the dealership for is the acquisition of the new car. You can find financing anywhere and you can find better ways to get rid of your old vehicle.

8. Every New Car Dealership Is Basically Just A Giant Vending Machine

All new cars are the same if they are the same make and model. They are commodities, the only thing that matters then is the price. Don't get wrapped up in the specific dealership get wrapped up in the price. The dealer is just a vending machine with the same cars as the other guy, unless you are talking about buying a used car, then you have to inspect each car on a case per case basis.

9. The Current Time is Always Bullshit O'Clock

Bullshit is the selective representation of lies and truths. If The salesman is moving his mouth just assume it;s automatically Bullshit O'Clock.

10. Do Not Succumb To Any Pressure To Get The Deal Done Now

Do the deal on your time, they want to close you out quickly. They will use time inducements and pressure. Time inducements, basically anything designed to get you to sign now is probably Bullshit!! They want to get you out of the market before you drive down the road and get another car elsewhere. You gotta do the deal on your own time and your own terms. You have to set the rules! The Golden rule is You have the gold, you make the rules.

11. There's Still Plenty of Profit For The Dealer

Look at the real estate, the location, the size the expensive looking building and amenities, it all was obviously paid for by profit LOL. If they say there is no profit in new car deals, it's absolute BULLSHIT!

12. Full Disclosure Is A Bad Idea

Don't answer all the salesman's questions and don't give away all the details of your particular situation. You must decide what pertinent information to divulge. Never give the enemy more information than necessary, don't give them leverage over you.

13. All Emotional Pressure Is Bullshit!

Don't let them pressure you with guilt or any other emotion if they say things like "If I sell you this car at this price I can't feed my children" immediately counter with an equally strong and opposing statement "If I buy the car at the price you're asking, then I can't FEED MY KIDS" Feeding the salesman's kids is his problem not yours, you have your own family and well being to worry about.

14. Dealer Delivery and Various Charges - Negotiate It Down!

15. Insanely Popular Cars Don't Get Discounted

Supply and Demand still plays a role: Wait until supply exceeds demand if possible or choose a less popular model. (this one is hard for me, as I researched so many cars and finally decided on one or two and both turned out to be popular) LOL Go figure

16. Protection Services Might As Well Be Snake Oil
Rust Proofing, Upholstery protection etc....

17. Ton's of Profit in Accessory Sales
If you think there is a healthy profit margin in car sales, it's even a bigger margin in accessory sales. Get only what you actually need added to your car if anything at all.

18. Extended Warranties Are An Industry Wide Fraud
Just a thinned veiled service contract that ties you to getting all your services at the dealer

19. In House Insurance is always overpriced

20. Check Your Best Deals Using a Car Broker If Possible